Wednesday, December 15, 2010

The Patriots, Tom Brady, and Stats Padding. A Happy Family

Let me preface this post by saying that Tom Brady is having the best season of his career, and he is obviously the MVP choice at this point. 

That being said, there was a good article this week that broke down the percentage of NFL QBs' stats that were accumulated in garbage time. My guess is that the writer was motivated to dig into the stats by the recent blowout wins the Patriots racked up where Tom Brady was in the game throwing until the very end. Regardless, it comes to a very interesting (although not surprising) conclusion. Brady has accumulated a much higher percentage of his stats in garbage time than his fellow MVP candidates, Michael Vick, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers. Now, I don't know the exact percentages for the other MVP candidates, but the article states that their garbage time stats percentage falls below league average. Brady's garbage time stat percentage on the other hand, is over 4.2% higher than the average NFL QB and at least that much higher than the other three named QBs. While that may not sound like a lot, it's a very significant amount. 

Nobody should really be surprised to read of those stats. Haven't we all at some point thought "Why is he still in the game and throwing?" Perfect example: New England vs. New York two weeks ago. The Patriots are ahead of the Jets 45-3 with four minutes left in the game. Is Tom Brady sipping Gatorade and running his hands through his hair on the bench? Nope. He's in the game throwing passes out of the shotgun formation with a 42 point lead. Of course, anyone who watched the 2007 season, when Brady threw for 50 TDs, would have seen this act time and time again. I lost count of how many times Brady threw jump ball after jump ball to Randy Moss as the Pats were blowing out their opponent late in the game. Rest assured, nothing was sweeter than watching 18-0 turn into 18-1 because it felt like karma was finally having her way. Well ladies and gentleman, the 2007 Patriots seem to have been resurrected, at least in the sportsmanship department. Karma, please be ready.

The main thing that struck me about this article was that it didn't even mention the difference between the two types of garbage time. The vast majority of passes that get thrown in garbage time are thrown by the team that is trailing. Almost always, the defensive strategy of the team with the lead shifts completely to protecting against the pass and big plays. While the underneath routes are left open for short gains, the defense is focused on preventing long passes and quick scores. The defensive line no longer plays the run, they just pin their ears back and go after the QB. Watch a Colts game when they have a big lead and see how many times Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis get late sacks and pressure. Without any responsibilities for playing the run, the defensive linemen are free to focus on teeing off on the QB. What this means in terms of the losing QB is that his job can get pretty dicey. While he can amass chunks of yardage by dropping the ball off for short completions, he has to take risks with the deep ball if he wants to try and bring his team back. In doing so, he plays right into the defense's hands. That's why you will see a lot of interceptions thrown in garbage time because QBs are forced to take chances and look for miracles.

Now when the winning team has the ball the strategy is completely different (Usually). Generally speaking, teams with large leads are content to run the ball, keep the clock running, and get the game over with as quickly as possible. By the time a team has put up a massive lead, the defense is just trying to get out of there and lick their wounds. As was evident in the Pats Jets game, putting up a huge lead will break the spirit of the defense, and they will almost always lose their intensity. This is when the true garbage time occurs. If a winning team is truly unaffected by a need for sportsmanship, they can exploit that broken defense for huge stats. That's what I see whenever Tom Brady continues to throw up 42 points with four minutes left in the game. It's stat padding, plain and simple. 

The reasoning the 2007 Patriots gave for consistently running up the score was that the game was never out of hand. There is always the chance that a team could pull off a miracle comeback (Or in the Jets case, throw a couple of 21 point TDs). However, that logic falls flat on its face when you see Brady get pulled in a losing effort as happened against the Browns this year. Better yet, think back to 2009 when the Patriots went to New Orleans and got pounded on. With three minutes left in the game, down by 18, Brady is on the bench and his backup is playing. How can anyone make the claim that a 42 point deficit isn't safe, but an 18 point deficit is too much to overcome? Well, for one thing, the guy from Indianapolis led his team to 21 points in around three minutes to tie the Buccaneers on Monday Night Football. O yea, and then there was the time the Colts scored 21 points in two minutes and ten seconds to come back from a 17 point deficit at the end of the game. Is that Belichick admitting that Brady isn't capable of that kind of magic? Or that Peyton is better? Nonsense. It solely had to do with protecting Brady and his stats. Like I mentioned before, a lot of interceptions occur in garbage time. I guess in New England, games are always in doubt when you're ahead but not when you're behind. Makes a TON of sense. 

Lastly, here is a leaderboard of career TD passes by situation for you to digest. They seem to lend a lot of support to the original argument. As Nate Dunlevy from observed, these numbers taken as a percentage of total passing TDs are even more outrageous. 

Most career TD passes with a 17+ point lead
1T. Tom Brady - 33
1T. Brett Favre - 32
3. Peyton Manning - 30
4. Steve Young - 28
Most career TD passes with a 28+ point lead
1. Tom Brady - 10
2. Sid Luckman - 8
3. Norm Van Brocklin - 8
4T. Craig Morton - 6
4T. Len Dawson - 6
Most career TD passes in the 4th quarter with a 28+ point lead
1. Jacky Lee - 5
2T. Tom Brady - 4
2T. Pete Beathard - 4
2T. Craig Morton - 4
I was shocked when I stumbled upon these numbers. Four TD passes with a 28 point lead in the 4th quarter is simply outrageous. Remember this post the next time you see Brady out there slinging it around with a huge lead. It might put some things in perspective.


  1. good article ahah i hate brady thanks.

  2. Now I have justification for my visceral dislike of Brady.

  3. "It solely had to do with protecting Brady and his stats."

    Ohh really? No team in NFL history has had as large a difference in payroll between the offense and defense as the Manning led Colts.

    In fact, in the 2001 draft, Manning lobbied the team to select wide receiver Reggie Wayne of Miami in the first round despite the fact that the Indy offense already featured a future Hall of Fame receiving talent in Harrison and despite the fact that the porous Indy defense surrendered 20.4 PPG in 2000. (The Indy offense averaged 26.8 PPG in 2000.) Instead of focusing on the defense and trying to win Manning saw another weapon he just had to have.

    While Manning once played on an offense with 6 #1 picks Brady gets it done with mostly late rounders and undrafted free agents. While Manning enjoy a dome Brady throws passes in some of the worse conditions in Football.

    Nice of you to try and point the finger at Brady for stat padding, but to even pretend that Manning's entire career hasn't been anything other then a stats padding fest is ridiculous and shows very poor research on your part.

    Thanks anyway.

  4. terrible use of stats, numbers clearly can prove anything you want. One could also argue that there are meaningless yards in the Fourth quarter by loosing QBs because the Defense is playing back. Man this is such a poorly written article using numbers simply to justify a belief and yet having no back up. heres a number Brady - 60 4th QtTDs out 23.6% of all his TDs, Manning 92 for 23.5%. Here is just one of your garbage TDs, 2001 versus Panthers, NE up 24-6 start of the "4th" qtr Wienke fumbles on his own 9 NE recover, 1st attempt incomplete, smith up the middle for 5, 3rd and 4 pass to TE Wiggins, I would have taken the knee and kicked,,seriously boys write some credible stuff

  5. Ryan, I'm not sure anything you wrote there disproves (or even attempts to disprove) the point of the article. I do have a couple of stats for you since you like Peyton so much.

    Peyton has 0 TD passes with a lead of 25+

    Since Brady's rookie year, there have been 13 total TD passes with a lead of 28+
    Brady has 4 of them.

    I addressed the garbage time for losing QBs idea. I'm not sure what the 4th Q TDs comparison means without any other criteria attached.

    I'm sure there are plenty of explainable 17+ margin TD passes, that's why you see Manning and Favre also listed at the top in that category. The 17+ column sets up the next two. That's its purpose.

  6. Have you ever considered that Tom Brady is so committed to winning, he executes at 110% every snap he takes and doesn't care what the score is. With this in mind, it gives him that much more game film to study, and that many more live repetitions with his team to prepare for the playoffs. I am a die hard and VERY Un-biased patriot fan, and I know in Patriot land, Belichick and the whole team knows that nothing in the regular season counts, and they want to get in as much practice before the playoffs as they can. And it also feels good to crush the Jets after all their shit talking.

  7. so i guess we should just do away with stats since they are so easily manipulated... GREAT POINT MALLETWP! Your 4th quarter stat tells us nothing because the scores weren't provided. Swing and a miss. Thanks for explaining the Panther game. There are 32 more. I guess these situations never happened to Steve Young and Brett Favre... Moron!

  8. Dan, I can understand some of that argument. The biggest issue I have with that is the double-standard I talked about involving how much differently the Pats treat losing big than winning big.

    Don't you think that Brady's commitment to winning should have kept him in the game against the Saints since the score was definitely not out of reach?

    Oh, and thanks for stopping by Dan, ryan, and malletwp

  9. okay JOhn, 2009 versus Jacksonville, 28 - 0 halftime no scoring in the third, opening play of the 4th (15:00) Brady on the 17 passes to moss on the 5 who runs in for the touch down. so this is one of your 28+ lead garbage TDs, can you explain this one,,,oh just wait lets look at another 2006 against Green Bay, 28-0 NE Fouth Quarter, GB punts NE runs ball back to GB's 23, screen pass to Maroney for the touch down...please these are two of his 4 so called garbage 4th qtr TDs, in both case He was eventually replaced...these stats are bogus and meaningless with background.

  10. Those are valid points Mallet but... why was he even in??? We all know he wouldn't have been in if they were down 28!

  11. ROASTED!!!!!! Rivers left the game last night in with 9:30 to go in the 4th. They were up 31-0. Do you think Brady-butt chin would have showed that kind of grace, hell no! Hello anyone home Pats dudes!

    Go Saux, Go Pats, Go Celts!!!
    Give me a quada slice of your most wicked pete-zer.


  12. Malletwp, are you arguing garbage time doesn't exist?

    Also, are you trying to tell me that it's pure coincidence that, of the 13 TDs thrown since 2001 when the team was up 28+, Brady has 4 of them while Brees, Favre, Manning, Warner, and Rivers don't have a single one?

  13. oh and yes, mallet, that Jacksonville game is exactly the kind of stuff he's referring to. Up 28 to nothing with your starter still chuckin' in the 4th quarter. When the running game and field goals are not an option- throw a 12 yard pass to pad those stats. Maybe he really did think that Jags (after being shut out for 3 qtrs) could've mounted a comeback. That doesn't really matter because the reality is: 1.) that is the essence of garbage time and 2.) that was obvious stat padding. Don't know why you're looking for an explanation and REALLY not sure how that was supposed to help you.

  14. okay final comments, I swear. New Orleans Game in question, 4th qtr, 7minute mark, Brady those a 49 yard pick, score at that time is still 38-17. The next NE possesion Hoyer is under the centre - 5:26 left in the game. Come on John, there are attempted come backs and then there is enough, sit down and we will play another day. Sorry I have looked at all the 4th quarter Tds and really I dont see anything that resembles running up the scores. the list of Qbs mentioned in the stats are all awesome, even Manning (who I think is underrated as a comedic actor) and that is coming from someone who is a diehard Pats fan and unfortunately was at the NE NWO route siting with a bunch of NWO buddies,,,,let me just say I have broad shoulders...Peace and happy holidays to you and all your followers

  15. Hey, the more times you come back the merrier haha.

    The stat dilemma comes when you get the massive lead in the 4th Q. That's where Brady leaves the pack. Like I said, none of those QBs I listed have even thrown one TD in that scenario.

    And the Saints game would be different if they hadn't talked about how "the game was never out of reach" or "we play 60 mins" during the massacres and pouring on that took place in 07. Then you sit your QB in a situation where many comebacks have occurred? It's happened twice with the Colts, and that's just one team. What happened to those two cliches they spouted off in 07? It's just hyopcritical

  16. There's no disagreeing with the numbers, Brady runs up the score, and it pads his stats. The only thing that the article doesn't prove is motive. Nobody knows what the intentions are but my belief is that Brady just wants to 'run up the score'. That stats padding thing is just a by-product. All elite QB's pad their stats one way or another. Last season, I saw Manning throwing late in the 4th of a 31-9 game vs the Titans in week 5 because he didn't have 300 yds yet. He was going for the 300 yd games streak, and once he hit 300, he stopped throwing. I don't see anything wrong with what Manning did, he wanted the record, I wanted him to get it, and it resulted in stat padding. There's nothing wrong with what Brady does either, he runs up the score and it results in stat padding. Some QB's pad their stats by running a pass-heavy offense like Manning, and some pad their stats by running up the score like Brady. I like that they both do it, it's entertaining, but they both just want to win. The stats padding is just a by-product of how they play.

  17. Oh, and I forgot, that was a good article. Very astute observations. The only thing that was disappointing was the author having associated "Sportsmanship" with "running up the score". That only applies with kids. As far as a bunch of grown up millionaires getting the score run up on them, who cares? It's entertaining it benefits both teams, and it improves the quality of the NFL. If my team is sucking, I would want them to play Brady, and have the score run up on them 70-0 to light a fire under their feet. Look at the 09' Titans. They were 0-5 and giving a half-hearted effort for their fans, at best. They got embarrassed to the tune of 59-0 by Brady and the Pats in week 6. That lit the fire and they responded with 5 consecutive wins and 7 of 8, and finished the season 8-8. Titans fans should've been thankful to Brady for turning their team around. The author has some very Delicate Sensibilities. Running up the score is great entertainment. If I pay to watch a 60 minute game, I don't want to watch both teams mail it in for the last 15 minutes. If one of them does, I want the other one to make them pay. I bet the advertisers who pay to promote their product in the 4th Qtr feel the same way. They know if both teams stop playing, people change the channel. Everybody needs to calm down with all this "running up the score is insensitive" crap. I like sportsmanship too, that's why I like it when teams play within the rules, don't try to take illegal shots at someone when the guy is 7 feet out of bounds, and shake hands after the game. Beating someone by 21 or beating them by 42 has nothing to do with sportsmanship as long as you do it within the rules. There's too much political correctness in today's society. I bet the author's next blog will call for a mercy rule to be instituted in the NFL. If you don't like grown men getting the score run up on them, then you need thicker skin.

  18. "Peyton has 0 TD passes with a lead of 25+
    Since Brady's rookie year, there have been 13 total TD passes with a lead of 28+
    Brady has 4 of them. "

    "No team in NFL history has had as large a difference in payroll between the offense and defense as the Manning led Colts."

    Pretty easy to see why Manning doesn't see as many big leads as Brady. When you ignore your defense and stockpile offensive players you're not going to be blowing folks out that often, but you'll still be able to score big offensive numbers.

    Amazing I had to connect those dots for you.

    And on a side note, I do like Manning a lot, he'll go down as one of the best ever and if he's not a first ballot HoF we'll need to replace the voters.

    Thanks for stopping by tho!

  19. Ryan, are you saying that Brady has had more large leads than all of those QBs I listed combined? Because none of them have even thrown one TD with a 28+ lead.

    I havent looked at the game logs to confirm, but I would bet a lot of money that you would be mistaken.

    Jamor, while I understand your point, I don't think sportsmanship and toughness are mutually exclusive. You can have class and be dominant at the same time. That being said, that was a tiny portion of the article. The main point I was trying to make is that most teams see it as having good sportsmanship to just run the ball and run out the clock. The sportsmanship aspect should be at the bottom of the totem pole when compared to how easy it is to pile up stats on a broken defense. Should we value those stats the same even though every other team in the league runs the ball every down when they're up by a million points?

  20. Yes John, the stats that are accrued while running up the score should COUNT as much as the stats in the firt 3 Qtrs (if that's what you mean). And yes John, Some stats are simply valued more than others. For example, stats accumulated during a Clutch playoff drive are, and should be, valued more than other stats. But one pass TD still counts for one pass TD, and you should be careful with that slippery slope you're walking on. Brady and Manning have both played tons of defenses that were overmatched from the beginning of the game. Should we not value the stats from games against bad teams either? Slippery slope!

    And most teams see it as having good sportsmanship to not talk so much trash . The Jets ran their mouth and they got what they deserved. I'm guessing that the teams that run their mouths the most going into the game are the same ones that want the other team to run the ball so the beating won't get as out of hand as the trash talking did before the game.
    Sportsmanship is one thing, but class is another. I don't like the word 'class' being used as a barometer to define NFL teams. What's it mean in that context anyway? Is it classless to run up the score? Is it classless if a player on defense does a celebratory dance after a sack, like some Colts do? What about a TD celebration? A 1st down celebration? When does it become "classless"?
    Calm down dude, let's not get on some moral high ground where Brady is classless for running up the score because so many things go on in a football game that i'm sure all teams and all QB's can be called classless for something (remember my exmple of Manning vs The Titans in 09?). Running up the score or the stats, and having class, have nothing to do with eachother. I can criticize Brady for alot of things, but being classless or unsportsmanlike is not it. That's to high a horse to ride on when Manning has some things of his own that can be construed as classless or unsportsmanlike, as long as we're going to use those terms so loosely and we're going to muddle them together.

  21. Manning has accumulated Great stats against some bad defenses this season. Meanwhile, Brady has accumulated some Great stats against some Great defenses this season (Ravens, Steelers, Jets, Bears, Chargers).
    The argument will be made that Brady's stats are more valuable, and that's why he's the leading MVP candidate. See what I mean? Some stats are valued more than others. And that's ok. But when both of these QB's retire, nobody will care about who had the tougher schedule through out his career, or who got some stats by runnig up the score, or who got some stats by running a pass heavy offenses. None of it will matter. That's why I think that while you made some astute observations in your article, they're small potatoes (miniscule), and they're petty. I'm sure Manning can be reduced to a classless, unsportsmanlike bully also, if someone nitpicks a bunch of petty stuff about the style of his game.

  22. Jamor, you're going off on a major tangent. If you wanna rail against one sentence of the article feel free. You've already written 50x as many words about it as I felt was necessary. Suffice it to say, I think throwing while up 42 with 4 mins left and then scampering to the bench when roles are reversed and you're down 18 with 3 mins left is hypocritical. You can disagree.

    If you feel like having 4 TDs up 28+ in the 4th quarter in your career while no other great to elite QB has a single one isn't evident of anything then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

    I never said those stats shouldn't "count" the same as all the others. Putting statistics in perspective, discussing how much stock you should put in them, and pointing out how they are accrued is completely different than saying they should "count" differently than other stats. It's only a slippery slope if you are incapable of making the distinctions.

    I like how you went from good article except for the sportsmanship part to some astute observations but ones that are miniscule and petty. Not sure how that works.

  23. hahaha heres what Dan said "Have you ever considered that Tom Brady is so committed to winning, he executes at 110% every snap he takes and doesn't care what the score is. With this in mind, it gives him that much more game film to study, and that many more live repetitions with his team to prepare for the playoffs."
    Dude must be an eith grade basketball coach, way to go little Jonny you were giving 110 percent out there. Apparently he is ion Brady's head too, he knows that brady while giving 110 percent is thinking about live reps to watch in film! This guy is the ultimate guy who never played a sport who is a youth coach, and pretends he knows what goes on in athletics!

  24. I didn't know someone could give 110%. Isn't 100% the max, as in more isn't possible? Brady must be amazing that he can find 10 extra percent to give.

  25. He is magical, don't you dare question it.

  26. Passing while you're up 42 and scampering to the bench down 18 with 3 minutes left surely can be seen as hypocritical at first glance. That's a fair assessment.
    However, criticizing Brady for padding his stats while the game is out of reach and ignoring that Manning did it to the Titans last year also can be characterized as hypocritical on your part.
    I told you I won't get all judgmental and criticize either QB for padding their stats because it's too high a horse. Plus you wind up looking like a hypocrite when you ignore the actions of one QB and criticize the other. That's why I take the position that both QB's had their reasons for doing it the way they do. Maybe Manning just wanted the record really bad, and that's valid enough for me. And maybe Brady felt that coming off major knee surgery, he didn't want to risk it in a game that was long over in the Saints' favor. And that's good enough for me. Nothing wrong with that. Also, you're overlooking that fact that in week 6 vs the Titans, when Brady had the Pats up 45-0 by halftime, he only came out for one drive in the 3rd Qtr. Which is perfectly consistent with him coming out of the Saints game with 3 mins to play. Nothing hypocritical about that, he came out early in the 3rd when the game was out of hand in his favor, and he came out with 3 mins left in the 4th when the game was out of hand in the Saints' favor. It could be his knee was still tender last season, who knows. But I won't judge either QB. Don't you think you're being hypocritical in turning a blind eye when Manning pads his stats, but calling out Brady for doing the same?

  27. As far as the running up the score thing, some people have delicate sensibilities and some people don't, enough said.

    You used the word "value" in questioning whether we should value all stats the same if they came while the game was out of reach. We agree there, some stats are valued more than others.

    And it's not a slippery slope if you're "incapable of making the distinction", it's a slippery slope when you "discuss how much stock" to put into Brady's stats, because the same criticism can be leveled at Manning and many other QB's who accumulated stats in garbage time. You want to define "garbage time" at a 28 point lead so you can isolate Brady. The truth is that when the game is out of reach, it's garbage time. And the game can get out of reach earlier than the 4th qtr, and with a less than a 28 point lead. But if we broaden the definition of "garbage time" to anything other than a 28 point lead in the 4th, you might find that Brady isn't the only offender. That's when it becomes a slippery slope, because now Manning is also open to that criticism, as are many others.

    Also, I don't know why you're "not sure how that works" when I say that your article was good but that your arguments were miniscule and petty.
    It's simple, any article that inspires this much discussion on my part, is in my opinion, a good article, and a nice discussion piece. But that doesn't change that fact that your arguments are miniscule, petty, and you can add hypocritical to that. Hope that helps to reconcile my praise and my criticism of your article.

  28. This article also overlooks another obvious point: The Pats have rarely had a great running game in the Brady era. In fact, much like the Montana era 49ers, the Pats have used their passing game as a running game. Brady's most impressive stats have not been yards thrown or TDs but the lack of INTs and the completion percentage. No question that Belichick keeps the gas pedal on, but for the Pats the best way to shorten the game and run the clock is to throw screens and short passes down the middle. These are high percentage throws with little injury risk to QB or receiver. If it results in TDs against a by definition demoralized defense who is already getting blown out well...

  29. One of my favorite parts of the Colts-Patriots rivalry is how the two franchises do things differently (i.e. -- yes/no on 16-0), and might this just be another case of that? I'm not going to argue with your statistics or say they're irrelevant, but isn't it premature to bring in sportsmanship and "running up the score" to what Brady/Belichick do? When the Patriots went for 19-0 in 2007, wasn't part of the reason they did so because they simply felt they'd better serve themselves in the long run by continuing to play hard and not switching into a different mode for a few games? Here, isn't it just as likely that Brady/Belichick want to use every opportunity to practice a slant to Deion Branch in a game situation as it is that they just want to run up the score on the opposition? Again, I'm not saying the stats don't matter, but just that making any sort of moralistic judgment on them is misguided. (And as your post suggests, perhaps the reason Brady was pulled in the Saints game is that if the game's out of hand and the defensive linemen's only job becomes attacking the quarterback, he has a better-than-average chance of getting hurt, as opposed to a situation where the Patriots are up by a lot late.)

  30. Oh, and I can't believe you're getting all critical over 4 TD's out of like 280 career TD's.

    Are you gonna object to me saying you're being petty, when you're all worked up about 4 TD's? Come on, get real.
    Think of it this way. Montana is widely considered the Greatest of All Time. He threw 6 TD passes in one Superbowl and they won the game 55-10. I'm sure some of that scoring by Montana was in garbage time. Steve Young threw 7 TD passes in one Superbowl game, and some of that was in garbage time. But today, nobody cares!! People only mention how great those two guys performed in the Superbowl, and nobody remembers "garbage time."
    That's what I mean when I tell you that when Brady and Manning retire, nobody will care that Brady threw a whole 4-pack of TD passes in his career while he was up 28. It even sounds comical. In that sense, yes, your arguments are petty, miniscule, hypocritical, and funny.

  31. Jamor, I understand now what you meant. It looked to me at first read that you changed your mind on the article after the first comment.

    So, the fact that no one will care after they're retired makes writing an article pointless? Please tell ESPN. Oh, and please tell ESPN that no one cares about the issue now. That must be why they picked up my article. Weird

    There's a multitude of evidence in this article. I'll let you read it again and see if my "outrage" is over 4 TDs.

    And those 4 TDs can also be looked at as ~30% of the entire NFL's TD passes in that scenario over the past decade. That percentage isn't miniscule.

    You're talking about the playoffs which is completely different. Again, more single game examples and this time they don't have ANY bearing on the discussion.

    It's not so much this QB was in late this one time.....It has happened to most good QBs at some point (Well not the throwing a TD up 28 in the 4th part). One game here or there doesn't mean that the guy who sets the standard for staying in and running up the score is no different from anyone else.

    The rest of your points (and some of the ones I addressed) are straw men so I'm not going to bother with them.

    Lastly, I didn't define garbage time as anything. You should probably just read the article again. It'll help

  32. Beth, they don't need a great running game to run the ball. Teams aren't trying to score or gain a ton of yard when they run out the clock with a huge lead (Patriots excluded).

    Akno, I would argue that Brady is in more danger staying in the game late with a huge lead. That's when the cheap shots and frustration hits tend to occur. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has just destroyed him on a late hit so far.

  33. Actually, I'm sure ESPN picked up your article because they realized the same thing I did. That your article is a great discussion piece. They know nobody cares how many of Brady's stats came in Garbage Time outside of hardcore Manning fans (Mantards). You know, the ones who are scrambling like a chicken without a head to find any reason, however petty, to discredit Brady because he's having a Great season, and Manning has struggled.
    In the grand scheme of things, when all is said and done, all your arguments are petty and that will show (except with your target demographic, Mantards). Even the one about 30%. It's still 4 TD's.
    Except the running up the score argument. Which is petty to me, but there are alot of people out there with very Fragile, and Delicate Sensibilities. To them, that's a huge deal. Not because they object to Brady having an extra 4 TD passes, but because they find it insensitive to run up the score on grown men who make millions to play the game but sometimes show up unprepared, and sometimes give it less than their full effort.

    And as far as the rest of my points being straw men, of course they are. The fact that I gave you concrete proof that Manning pads his stats as well, strawman because that would imply that Manning is also guilty. Manning started an 8 play drive with 2:55 left in the Chargers game witht the score at 36-14 this season. He threw 7 passes that ended with yet another Manning Int, with :50 left in the game. What do you think Mannig was doing still throwing? Going for one of those 22 point TD's? Dude, he was padding his stats, nothing more, the game was over. However, it's all strawman because if it points to Manning padding his stats. So let's just put our head down and call it strawman because acknowledging it would prove Manning is just as guilty of the same thing, and we're hypocritical.
    The fact that all teams can be called classless for many reasons, strawman because that would imply that Manning and the Colts are just as guilty.

    In the end, my biggest point is, I'm glad I read your piece. I try to read all negative articles about Brady, particularly ones that are touted on national media outlets. For me, it just makes the season much more enjoyable to know how many people are miserable over Brady's success. I love watching Brady succeed, and the journey is the best part. A big part of the joy of the journey is reading all this stuff and basking in the glory of seeing you all scramble to discredit Brady. I savour your despair over Brady's success. The desolation that inspires articles like yours is as delightful to me as it is bitter to Mantards everywhere.
    I'm praying for Brady to win another MVP and another Ring. In large part because I can just imagine the articles that will be written by people like you. Maybe if he wins the SB this year you can write an article about how it doesn't really count because he's too good looking or something. Or maybe you can write that the long hair is lame so the MVP this year shouldn't carry so much stock. Or how about writing about how his stas in the snow shouldn't count because he purposefully throws the ball too hard and it cuts through the snow and wind. He might win another Ring this year, so get ready to write something to discredit it and include something about how Manning doesn't win Rings because jewelry is gay so he prefers individual stats because trophies are more manly.

  34. Daugherty, give it a rest already. Jamor is 100% right. This is just a bunch of petty B.S. dug up by people that, for whatever reason, dislike Tom Brady.
    And as Jamor pointed out, Manning is just as guilty of what you are accusing Brady of.
    The first post at the top says it all: "good article haha i hate brady thanks". And there you have it.

  35. Just to give your ESPN thing a little context. I have an episode of Sportscenter from late november on my DVR where Steve Berthiaume (SC anchor) actually reports that in spite of the Pats success this season, nobody in New England likes the Pats anymore because Brady is too good looking. That makes your arguments about padding stats and running up the score seem really significant by comparison. So why would it be weird that they pick up your article when they report that the Pats have no more following in New England because Brady is too good looking.

  36. Jamor seems to hint at the idea that a lot of media outlets like to hate on Brady. I have noticed the opposite, everyone in the media thinks he is God and can do no wrong. Obviously he is great. I also don't understand how Pats fans treat this guy like he is bigger than the team. You would think that someone who is purse shopping with his wifey, while his teammates are on the field battling their asses off wouldn't be the most popular guy in town.....

  37. The media thinks Manning is God too. Especially ESPN, who drool over him almost as much as they did Favre. Obviously Brady and Manning are both great QBs. I understand why Pats fans treat Brady that way- probably the same reason why Colts fans treat Manning like he is the second coming of Jesus Christ, and why Dolphins fans think of Marino the same way, and Broncos fans towards Elway, and Steelers fans towards Bradshaw,and 49ers fans towards Montana, etc etc... It's a QB-driven league. This is nothing new.

  38. Actually Steve, In no way do I think that alot of media outlets hate on Brady. He and Manning get tons of love from both ESPN and NFL Network, which are the ones I watch the most.
    I brought up the ESPN thing in response to John implying that the fact that ESPN picked up his article somehow proves that his points aren't petty.
    ESPN has over-reported on the length of Brady's hair, and they've even reported that the Pats have lost their fanbase because Brady's too good looking. That's about as petty as it gets. So it's not that they dislike Brady. It's that ESPN can be petty. So if John thinks that ESPN picking up his article means that his points aren't petty or that they have some relevance in the grand scheme of things with regards to Brady's legacy, he's misguided.

    And speaking of pettiness, your comment about Brady purse shopping with his wife is funny. How do you like what he's done on the field this year? MVP caliber stuff, right? That's the stuff that I concern myself with. You know, if you don't stop worrying about his personal, his looks, and his wife, it's gonna make you bitter. Brady and Manning are Great QB's and we are privileged to watch that rivalry in our era. I don't remember much of Montana, Marino, Elway because I was too young but I sure appreciate these two QB's. No matter how much you hate that Brady for personal reasons having nothing to do with football, you gotta admit, he's one hell of a QB.

  39. The fact that you are still using an example of Manning being in the game in garbage time when the Colts are BEHIND as comparison to Brady being in the game in garbage time when he is way ahead just shows again, that you need to read and comprehend the article (HINT: the difference in garbage time when ahead and garbage time when behind). However many times it takes.

    In fact, you actually proved my point with that comparison. So thank you.

    Of course, Brady would never be in the game down by 22 trying to work a miracle (and thus taking risks that could end up being INTs). He lets Hoyer throw the garbage time picks. How generous. Now when the score is reversed and the Pats have a huge lead, Hoyer doesn't deserve the chance to get to throw some TDs and get some stats against a broken defense. That's all Brady baby.

    And his point was that Brady was purse shopping in '08 during a huge game for NE. Some teammate eh?

    Lastly, I like your assumption that I somehow have the hubris to think my article will matter "in the grand scheme of things." How many articles written will qualify for that honor? Not many. Guess, we should have your Stalinistic censorship standards.

    I look forward to your response (which will have a word count higher than the original article) with more fawning over Tommy and ignoring of the points made in the article.

  40. Wow, John, you just got served, if Manning was having an MVP-caliber season, do you think you would've written this article still? Why don't you focus on the Colt's struggles this year instead of pointing out the poor sportsmanship exhibited by Brady when he is doing what he is supposed to do, play football. This is a professional game, these guys are being payed millions of dollars to play football, if they can't do that, well, tough luck. If we were talking about high school football, now there's a different story, it's merely a game in high school football, there's no need to crush opponents, however the NFL is a professional league and should be treated as such.

  41. Well said, Parth. Daugherty's loathing of Brady is ridiculously transparent and has obviously been intensified as a result of Brady having a monster season, while Manning has been struggling.
    And I love the quote "The Pats are ahead of the Jets 45-3 with four minutes left in the game. Is Brady on the bench? Nope, he's in the game throwing passes out of the shotgun with a 42-point lead."
    After scoring on a 1-yard TD pass on the first play of the 4th quarter (38-3), the Pats had all of two possessions the rest of the game.

    12:46 to go: After an INT by Sanchez, the Pats began at the Jets' 28. 6 plays later, it was 45-3. (1 pass, 5 runs- all by BJGE, rushing TD)

    5:49 to go: Next NE possession- 6 plays and a punt. (4 runs and 2 incompletions by Brady- short right and short middle.)

    "with four minutes left in the game, Brady is still throwing passes out of the shotgun with a 42-point lead."

    Making it sound like Brady is heaving passes downfield in an attempt to get a touchdown?? Nice try. After the 12:46 mark of the 4th quarter, Brady threw 2 short incompletions.

    Brady's 4th quarter passing stats in the Jets game: 2 of 4 for 8 yards and a 1-yard TD.

    Nitpick much?

  42. Actually Parth, I went off on Brady when the New Orleans game happened last year. I think Peyton won the MVP that year, but I can't remember.....

    The blog just didn't exist then.

  43. I think it's funny that you two are relating my article with Manning's struggles. I guess I was also bitter last year when the Colts were dominant and Manning won the MVP. Lord knows, that's the only way criticism of Brady can be explained.

    He's throwing passes out of the shotgun formation with a 42 point lead. Does it matter that they were short passes? Is that not the Pats offense in general? So what was different?

  44. John good point about Brady throwing short passes being their offense. He stands there with no defenders around him and dumps it off to one of the wide open receivers 5 yards away from him. Jamor- Im starting to wonder about you you have mentioned Brady's good looks a few too many times. Do you have a man crush on Brady? (assuming you are a dude)
    Also, to your point that you don't care what he does off the field.....You shouldn't unless it is during a big game, when his "teammates" are putting it on the line on Sunday. I say "teammates" because if he were a real teammate he would not be at the mall. You people who are Pats fans would absolutely rip anyone else for doing that. What if Manning was at the mall and not even watching his teammates play, or Jeter, or Sanchez you people would never get over it.

  45. Considering the intent of this blog, yes it does matter that Brady threw just two short passes designed to do nothing more than run out the clock with under 5 minutes left. No different than handing off to a RB at that point.
    If Brady was really trying to pad his stats, he would've been throwing long to Branch or Tate. I mean 20-30-40 yards downfield in an attempt to get another TD.
    Instead of handing the ball to BJGE inside the 20 five straight times with 12:46 left, why wasn't Brady throwing for the end zone? That would've been a perfect time to pad his stats. But he opted to go with 5 straight running plays.
    2 of 4 for 8 yards in the 4th quarter. And you're trying to make something out of THAT? Please. Just keep on hating...

  46. I think these clowns like the taste of Brady's man-juice. Until they actually do some statistical research to prove their points, i'm done. This article says Brady is the obvious MVP choice. It also doesn't say people will care one-hundred years from now or this is a groundbreaking revelation. This is an observation. Brady is in during blowouts and out while being blownout. You all just keep justifying how the TDs occurred, not why he was in for them to occur. If he played all the time there would be no issue. These guys (Jamor especially) show their love Brady by the effort spent defending him and saving month old sportscenters that denigrate his hero. It's obvious he pads his stats, you just agree with him doing it because it's the NFL- and that's fine! But don't pretend like it's not happening. There may be a legitimate argument to why he does it but there is no denying he does it. If you hate Manning or any other QB or think this unfair, quit being lazy and write something with your own statistical analysis/research. God knows some of you have the word count for 3 or 4 articles just in this comments section.

  47. I also find it amusing that if you like Manning (which I do- he's a great, great QB and a slam dunk HOFer) then you're just another NFL fan that likes and admires Peyton Manning and his incredible talent.
    But if you like and admire Tom Brady, then you are an obvious, blatant homosexual and you... "like the taste of his man-juice"?? OK....
    Which speaks to the immaturity level of some people on this board.

  48. Hey John I praised your article and said it's a great discussion piece and I also criticized your arguments as petty. You should be flattered that I found your article interesting enough to comment this much on it. Instead, you cry about communism and censorship? Really? Man, you got some Victim-Syndrome going on. Do you always feel this Victimized when people criticize your arguments? or is it just Brady's great season that's sending you off a cliff. Calm Down! Nobody is trying to take away your free speech. I just had to laugh at your paranoia when I read that.

    And Parth is absolutely right, you're only writing negative stuff about Brady because Manning is has struggled this year. Guess what man, It won't change that Brady's succeeding and Manning is struggling.

    John, Womp, Steve; I said John's criticism of Brady is petty, and it is. Having said that, I like it when he runs up the score, it's entertaining. If that pads his stats, that's ok (BTW, John is short-changing Brady because he had a TD pass with a 27 pt lead vs the Bears on sunday so if you lower your stat to a 27 pt lead instead of 28, he's got more, Hopefully it' closer to 20). But you guys have made the mistake of thinking that Brady's success is somehow an assault on Manning's legacy, and that's just not the case. There's room for both QB's to get their Stats, MVP's, Rings, and to create Great Legacies. Manning had a great year last season but I in no way took that as an assault on Brady or his legacy. Manning's success had nothing to do with Brady being one and done in the playoffs. Contrary to what you all believe Brady is not assaulting the Manning name with every TD pass he throws. It just feels that way to you guys, but that's an indicator of something being wrong with your mindset, not something being wrong with Brady succeeding.
    The reason Pats fans don't care that Brady was shopping in 08' when he was out for the season with a knee surgery, is because we don't have the Delicate Sensibilities that you all have. That's just too funny, I laugh everytime you bring it up. If Manning ever gets hurt and goes shopping during a game, I promise I won't get mad. Funny funny funny!

  49. There have already been too many words committed to overanalyzing and cherry picking individual points to disprove in this column. Only the narrow minded focus on the individual points rather than the value and scope of the article as a whole. No one ever said TB crap quarterback. The article was merely meant as a discussion piece to elicit conversation on a couple of points. One is a stats discussion related to the value of garbage time stats and the observation of the percentage of those stats accrued by TB. The other was the observation regarding how Brady “playing the full 60 minutes” only happens when the Pats have a huge lead and why “playing the full 60 minutes” is ignored when he comes out when the Pats are down by a large amount. To cherry pick smaller points to fit your argument and to cherry pick individual games as the counter to these observations is short sighted. I’m sure any author loves when the readers bash individual components of piece and don’t take the article for what it is as a whole. Taking points out of context is soooooo much fun.
    As to the sportsmanship argument, I’m tired of non athletes making the point that “these guys are professionals.” Or, “this is a man’s game.” Well that may be the point of view of people who haven’t played sports since high school, or maybe youth league. Who knows? Talk to anyone who has played sports at a high level (college or higher) and they will tell you the same thing. You play hard and you try to beat your opponent at all costs, but you always do it right way. You don’t steal bases when you’re up 10 runs, you don’t leave your starters in and launch threes when you’re up 30, and you don’t throw the ball when you’re up 45. Why is this important? Not because people have delicate sensibilities. It is important because all TRUE athletes know that at any given point, the bats can stop hitting, the shots can stop falling, and the passes can stop connecting. The roles can easily flip at any time so above all, it isn’t about necessarily respecting the other team. It is about respecting the game and not upsetting that delicate balance between success and failure. Most Pats fans, I would think, would understand that given “The Catch” and everything that it represented.

  50. After I moved to California in 2002, I returned to Boston a year later wearing a nice cashmere jacket that led my buddy J-Bug to mockingly call me "Malibu Billy" all night. (In an unbelievable turn of events, I lost the jacket that same night after our friend Sully passed out while we were playing pool and we had to rush him out before he started throwing up on everyone.) After Sunday's Jets loss, Bug angrily texted me, "Hey Malibu Billy -- send Brentwood Brady your old cashmere jacket with a note, 'You'll be needing this.' F***ing Gisele Ono turned him into a soccer star. I was hoping he had two more Super Bowls in him, but he's too busy wondering whether he should go with lizard or alligator belly for his new man purse. " Needless to say, Brady's hair is NOT going over well back in Boston. Especially when he's playing like his hair. If that makes sense.

    That was a post from the great Bostonian himself, Bill Simmons. It was after week 2 when Brady played like crap. Now could I cherry pick that paragraph and make a point that Boston fans are turning on him? No because it would have been shortsighted and incorrect.

  51. For the record, Manning is better than Brady on SNL. Other than that I don't care about either. Don't lump me in with the "Mantards" as you call them. I haven't made any manning references and I could care less about them or the Colts. I live in Florida. I just laugh every time I see the weeping over Brady, even when the stats support an idea. I guess he made those up too.

  52. Shawn, Actually, to be factually accurate, Brady didn't play 60 mins in the Jets win, the Titans win, or the Saints loss. In fact, he come out early in the 3rd Qtr when they were blowing out the Titans. As far as running up the score, I'm guessing that you've had the score run up on you a couple of times. That's kind of funny, and it explains alot.
    I'm not taking anything out of context. I recognize the fact that Brady runs up the score, and it results in stat padding. All I said is, all great QB's have done it (stat padding), which they have. It's petty, which it is. But I don't mind that they all do it, it's fine. In fact, I kind of like all this running up the score and don't mind the stat padding that comes from it. If other teams run it up on the Pats, Great, they're pros, they can handle it. The NFL won't fall apart and cease to exist over teams running it up on eachother.

    Womp; you and I have something in common. We both laugh every time we see weeping over Brady. That's why it's so funny and entertaining to me that John is weeping over Brady padding his stats and running up the score. I guarantee you if Brady was having a horrible season, all these Mantards wouldn't be weeping over petty stuff. One of the main characteristics of Mantards is that they see Brady's success as an assault on Manning's legacy. That's why they go out of their way to nitpick Brady's game with articles like John's. They see Brady headed for an MVP and their confidence in Manning gets rattled unnecessarily, that's so weird. So they go after Brady because they think their weeping over Brady's style somehow validates Manning's legacy and their faith in him. That's what makes them Mantards. It's fascinating that they think that way. They undermine Manning's accomplishments with that twisted mentality because that means they define Manning's legacy in terms of Brady's accomplishments.

    I define Brady's legacy by what he accomplishes on the field and I feel very confident and secure with that. That's why I don't feel the need to nitpick other QB's, and get on a high horse to judge them. To me, what Manning and other QB's do is irrelevant to Brady's legacy. I'll just let Brady define his own legacy.

  53. Shawn; don't take this the wrong way. I respect your political correctness on the issue of running up the score in professional sports. I just get kind of tired of too much political correctness in society. I love my country and I don't want to see it become a nation of wimps. Sometimes we need thicker skin. Running up the score has it's benefits. Plus It's more entertaining to watch 60 mins (or close to it) of playing hard and scoring, then 45 minutes of it. Remember the Titans in 09? They were 0-5 and barely giving their fans a half effort. Then they face Brady and the Pats, boom, 59-0. After the Pats blew them out, I recall Jeff Fisher responding to a reporter asking if he thought Belichick ran it up on him. Fisher said something to the effect of, "Yes, they ran it up on us, but I promise you it'll never happen again."
    Titans fans should've been thankful that Brady and Belichick turned their team around. If it weren't for 59-0, maybe they go 1-15. It's all in how the blown out team responds.

  54. Shawn; By the way, the Titans went on a 5 game winning streak following 59-0. They won 7 or the next 8.

  55. Jamor I love the fact that you read something with the perspective that you are going to right a counterargument. Unfortunately it causes you to miss the point entirely.

    First off, being politically correct implies that I said something in a way as to not offend or that I said withheld how I felt as to not insult someone. Pretty sure I didn't say anything that fit that criteria. I didn't say running up the score shouldn't be done because it hurts the other teams feelings. I said it shouldn't be done because there is a right way and wrong to play the game and you never no when the tables will be turned. I am absolutely sure I never said to stop playing hard either. I know it is hard but try to keep up.

    As to the quotation marks, I was quoting one of your brethern earlier in the discussion. Hence the use of quotation marks.

    Lastly, please stop with the "I konw you are but what am I arguments." As you say, "it is petty."

  56. *write and argument. I apologize for the typo.

  57. Shawn; I also think there's a right way to play the game. Sometimes, a team needs a major butt-whoopin' to remind them that the right way to play is to give your best effort. The Titans are a perfect example of this. As far as the "you never know when the tables will be turned," You mean to tell me one of the reasons for you being against running up the score is Fear? Fear that someday someone might do it to you? Wow, don't be scared, it doesn't hurt.

    So what you're saying is that you don't advocate a "stop playing hard" approach. You only advocate a "take it easy on the other team" approach. Ooooookay, that makes perrrrrfect sense.

  58. No worries on typos, I'm not a grammar-nazi. John is afraid i'm trying to take away his free speech, but no, i'm not a nazi of any kind. I think John called his attorney.
    You can put down the copy of the constitution John, I won't throw you in jail for criticizing Brady. Being a Mantard is not illegal :O)

  59. Fear does not play a role in this conversation whatsoever. Once again, I don't think I ever typed the words "take it easy on the other team." I said you never no when the tables will be turned. That means that at a moments notice, you can go from good to bad. A win can turn into a loss. If you find yourself in the fortunate position of being successful, don't tempt fate by crushing everyone's throats to get there. That is a lesson in karma. The flip side component has nothing to do with someone eventually being able to pay you back. The flip side component is that you can be a crappy team just as easy as you can be a good team. That is a fact of sports and in life. Now before you misinterpret that, I mean this: Keep playing hard. Don't take plays off. However, you can still play hard but not throw when up 45. You can still play hard, but not swipe extra bases. You can still play hard but not bomb 3s when up 30. Running up the score or not running up the score has nothing to do with effort.

  60. And where does that pesky karma fit in the "Peyton just threw a game-clinching pick 6 in the super bowl" scenario? Did Peyton somehow have that coming to him?

  61. I guess Manning must've padded his stats too much during the 09' season with that pass-heavy offense his runs. Fate and Karma caught up with him in SB44. Because according to these Mantards, that's the reason teams lose superbowls.
    I love this quote from Shawn; "It is about respecting the game and not upsetting that delicate balance between success and failure."
    Somehow in the 09' season, Manning violated this commandment and karma got him in SB44 :O))
    Oh, ok, I think I understand now. It's about "not upsetting the delicate balance between success and failure." But it's also about playing hard, but being careful not to score too many points. How many is too many? I wonder. I'm sure Shawn will tell me how many is too many. He's got it down to a science.
    Lastly, Fear does not play into it. Except in the case of FATE and KARMA, those two should really be Feared.
    And as a P.S. "You can go from good to bad at a moment's notice."
    Boy, the Colts must've really messed with McFate and McKarma, because there was the Pick-6, and then they went from a possible 16-0 team to an 8-6 team at a moment's notice. WTF!!!

  62. @mugggins79
    I think I got it all.
    It's about:
    Sportsmanship, Class, political correctness (not scoring too many points),not padding stats, delicate balance between success and failure, being an athlete, playing the right way, going from being a good team to being a crappy team, Fear (but only of fate and karma), Fate, Karma, a story about cashmere jacket, and Brady's hair.
    Oh and let's not forget the biggest part.
    If you're going to leave the game with 2:59 left in a losing game, then gosh-darnett you better leave the game with 2:59 left when you're winning. Otherwise, you will be tried and hung for treason. But you'll only be tried if your name is Brady and if you're having an MVP year while Manning is having an off year (which is a Preemptive Attack on Manning's legacy, and a Felony). Other than that, you're ok.

  63. I think it all comes down to this. You all can't understand the arguments because you have never played sports. I hate to make assumptions, but you are leaving me no choice.

    Secondly, did I type anything about saying you can't score too many points? No. I said it had to do with how you are scoring the points.

    Once again, you are taking something small that was said and blowing it out of proportion. Also, in your narrow view of life, the arguments only reflect on Brady and Manning. I'm pretty sure there are other quarterbacks in the league.

    Since you don't understand logic, I will break it down with a quote from one of the greatest movies ever: Bull Durham. "You don't eff with a winning streak." For those non sports playing people I'll elaborate on this quote. It means that winning is a delicate thing and you don't do anything to disrupt that streak, inlcuding disrespect it. Now I know what I wrote is going to be completely bastardize and the points are going to be manipulated for your own convenience.

    I once again point out that you all have turned this article into something it was never meant to become. Come to think about it, Pats fans must be really insecure about themselves and Tom Brady because they are awful quick to become defensive and deflect towards someone else. No one said Manning was Perfect. Far from it actually. But instead of looking objectively at an argument, you become defensive and use the I know you are but what am I arguement to point fingers at Manning. I actually feel kind of bad for you all.

  64. I've never seen a sports fan that didn't know what stat-padding and running up the score is. This has taken a lot of explanation and you still don't seem to have it. It's getting tired. Brady runs it up and you're okay with that because you are much harder than the politically correct society. We get it.

  65. Womp, you finally get it, Brady runs up the score, it results in stats being padded, and I'm ok with it. All QB's pad their stats one way or another. I gave two good examples of how Manning does it, to show that they all do it which I'm also ok with. That's my biggest point, but you're the first one to get it. I think it's petty to worry about who's padding their stats more because in the end, I won't judge them for doing it. They all have their valid reasons. John on the other hand, cried about sportsmanship because Brady does it, but seems to not be aware that all QB's do it.

  66. Shawn; I apologize for putting a gun to your head and forcing you to make assumptions. It is entirely everybody else's fault that you assume.

    All sarcasm aside, on running up the score, read the last two comments by Womp and me, and that sums it up perfectly. We agree to disagree.

    Your point about getting defensive and pointing fingers to deflect attention is brilliant. I can't disagree with that. Manning was having an off season there for a minute and Mantards have been pointing the finger at Brady. John didn't concern himself with the fact that Manning just needed to make better decisions on the field and stop throwing so many Int's. Instead he got all insecure about Manning's relative struggles, and he decided to point the finger at Brady with his article to deflect attention from Manning. Then when I posted two harmless comments (one about my feelings on running up the score, and one saying all QB's pad stats with examples of Manning having done it). Instead of looking objectively at the argument, John got all defensive and continued to point the finger at Brady because I guess it's Brady's fault that Manning was struggling this earlier this season and threw 11 picks in 3 games.

    I'm sure some Pats fans do that as well. Evidently, not the ones you know in Boston. When Brady struggled in week two, your friend wanted you to send him your jacket with a note. Bill Simmons blamed Brady also. That's the way it should be done.
    Simmons didn't blast Manning and lash out at him because Brady struggled, right? Your friends didn't get all insecure start nit picking Manning's game. Your story and your points illustrate perfectly the difference between most football fans, and Mantards.

    I only hope John doesn't get mad at you for pointing out exactly what he was doing. Feeling insecure about Manning, pointing the finger at Brady, getting defensive when I proved Manning pads his stats as well, refusing to see things objectively and realizing that all QB's pad stats. When I said to John, that i'm ok with all the stat padding because it's petty, he got even more defensive.

    My only mistake was that I didn't realize that while padding stats is petty to me, it's not petty to John. To me it's small potatoes, but to John it's about sportsmanship, class, it could oblititerate the NFL, and our congressmen need to be alerted immediately. I need to respect his sensibilities on the issue.

  67. Yeah, you're right. Good sportsmanship of Manning (Eli) not to run it up on the Eagles up 21 with 8 minutes to go yesterday.

    Btw: halftime score of Pats-Bears? 33 - 0. Final score: 36-7.

    Did they take a different approach the week before, against blowhard Rex "Kiss the rings" Ryan? Hell yeah. This is PROFESSIONAL football. When your rival is talking like it's their division now, you destroy them when if you're able.

    Glad you believe in karma, though. Wonder what Peyton did that explains the Super Bowl losing pick 6. Or does karma only apply when you want it to?

  68. The next time someone whines about running up the score in the NFL, just look at what happened in the Eagles-Giants game in the final 8 minutes. Just shut the fuck up already.

  69. It is the defenses responsibility to stop the other team from scoring. The purpose of the offense is to score. That sure is simple to understand. Success breeds contempt. I am glad I enjoy watching football and don't brood over statistics.